Wikipedia and internet censorship (I)

What is the final outcome of the e-G8 (internet G8) ? The situation seems by now unclear. Whereas private companies warn against governement regulations, the operation of Wikipedia provides a worrying illustration of what private internet censorhip can actually be without any government interference.

Basically anonymous administrators, no editorial board, no available check of the possible conflicts of interests and lobbying of these administrators... This appears to be the current Wikipedia running. At the same time, users and even large sets of IP netsurfer adresses can be blocked on the grounds of claimed « suspicion » based on arbitrary criteria such as IP similarities, « duck tests » or the so-called « checkuser ». Unwanted comments are hidden in the discussions on the deletion of articles... An example is the deletion procedure recently launched against the biography of Luis Gonzalez-Mestres in English by the Wikipedia administrators, after having previously blocked all the users that defended the article on superbradyons also deleted this week. Now, all coments giving detailed scientific arguments against the deletion of the Gonzalez-Mestres biography are put aside and hidden as allegedly « disruptive ». What has the supposed « neutrality » of Wikipedia become ?


Here follows the present statuts (May 26 at 22h, French Time) of the discussion on the deletion of the biography of Luis Gonzalez-Mestres from the English Wikipedia. The hidden comments and arguments have been displayed.

(available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, according to Wikipedia)


Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luis González-Mestres


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Luis González-Mestres

Luis González-Mestres (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)
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Given the information in the article, Luis doesn't appear to meet WP:PROF. I looked around quite a bit more on google, and I still can't find evidence that his accomplishments meet WP:PROF or the GNG. (As a heads-up, there has been a lot of persistent sock or meatpuppetry on this and related articles recently, which will probably pop up again here.) Kevin (talk) 05:27, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


[hide]Disruptive IP Socks + Other users comments/replies -- DQ (t) (e) 20:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • STOP THIS PROCEDURE. The so-called Kevin is directly concerned by the last article published by Indépendance des Chercheurs in his Médiapart blog :

How Wikipedia administrators "investigate" and punish "dissident" editors

On May 24, Jared Keller, an associate editor for The Atlantic and The Atlantic Wire, publishes in The Atlantic an article entitled « Is Wikipedia a World Cultural Repository ? » concerning the Wikipedia application to be recognized by the United Nations as a world heritage site. Keller does not criticize Wikipedia, but he points out that the Wikimedia Foundation does not seem to need extra money and « raised more than $21 million from November 2010 to January 2011 in the service of new initiatives ». He concludes that UNESCO « should better focus its resources on heritage sites facing more immediate challenges ». However, is this the only real problem with Wikipedia ? An article by Kevin Rawlinson in The Independent presents Jimmy Wales as pledging to « resist pressure to censor entries ». But is Wikipedia actually opposed to censorhip ? Selected worldwide information spread through a virtual encyclopedia can also be an influence tool, especially if unwanted information and editors are blocked by a nebula of mainly anonymous administrators with no public editorial board. Will Wikipedia become an official « unique encyclopedia » propagating a « unique thought » ? On May 24-25, Jimmy Wales is participating to the e-G8 (internet G8) together with representatives of the most influential corporations in the field. As The Washington Post emphasizes, Nicolas Sarkozy has opened the e-G8 with a « call for selective government regulation of Internet ». What will be the role of Wikipedia in such an institutional scheme ? Examining the censorhip and inquiry procedures currently used by the Wikipedia administrators against « dissident » editors and net users can be very enlightening from this point of view. And very worrying for the future of free internet. According to Jimmy Wales, governments should just stay away (Reuters). But his « solution » actually amounts to private internet police.


Actually, the user was just reacting to systematic deletion without previous deletion and to obviously agressive templates that look very much like a personal attack against a member of our collective in « response » to our articles disavowing the campaign against the Bogdanoff brothers.

Just after our first articles against the anti-Bogdanoff campaign, the French Wikipedia biography of Luis Gonzalez-Mestres was suppressed at the initiative of a Wikipedia administrator (Alain Riazuelo) personally involved in this campaign. After it was pointed out that the article in English on the so-called « Bogdanoff affair » contained wrong statements and misleading references, the Wikipedia article in English on superbradyons (describing and original idea by Gonzalez-Mestres) was also suppressed.

There have been several complaints against such Wikipedia practices without getting any answer, as Wikipedia claims to have no editorial board.


(end of quote)

Furthermore, all 'dissident" users (Jaumeta, Haeretica Pravitas, Indépendance des Chercheurs...) have been blocked.

Luis Gonzalez-Mestres is well-known for at least two original ideas that have generated worldwide important research activity : the luminescent (or scintillating) bolometer and the suggestion of a possible suppression of the Greisen - Zatsepin - Kuzmin cutoff by a violation of Lorentz symmetry at the Planck scale.

The conflict of the Laboratoire de Physique Corpusculaire at Collège de France was also reported by the main French medias, and evoked in written questions to the Government from French deputies and senators. This was reminded in a recent version of the biography :

Although it is true [42] that González-Mestres had to face strong institutional pressure, not only because of his research subject but also due to the conflicting situation,[45][46] of the Laboratoire de Physique Corpusculaire at Collège de France, it is unjustified to state that he was actually prevented from making his work public in due time. The existence of the arXiv electronic archive and of other e-publishing sites, as well as some important international conferences abroad, allowed González-Mestres to disseminate his results and ideas.

Gonzalez-Mestres was among the "dissident" participants to the November 1996 public hearing of the nuclear energy amplifier project (presented by Carlo Rubbia) organized by the French Parliament [47]. Rubbia's project was criticized by several members of the Laboratoire de Physique Corpusculaire, but also later by a Parliament report [48].

In the period 1997-99, there were several public written questions addressed to the French government by members of the French Parliament concerning the situation of the Laboratoire de Physique Corpusculaire of Collège de France and the difficulties met by Gonzalez-Mestres and other "dissidents" from this laboratory [49]

^ a b Remnant site of the Intersyndicale of the Laboratoire de Physique Corpusculaire of Collège de France (in French),


^ "La Gauche" (Gauche Socialiste),

^ Fabien Gruhier (February 1997), Dans trente ans le réacteur miracle? Nucléaire: la bataille du rubbiatron, Le Nouvel Observateur, February 6, 1997 (in French), reproduced in

^ André Gsponer (November 2003), In memoriam: L'amplificateur d'énergie nucléaire de Carlo Rubbia (1993 - 2003), from La Gazette Nucléaire, No. 209/210 (in French),

^ Rapport de Claude Birraux sur le contrôle de la sûreté et de la sécurité des installations nucléaires, pages 67-150,

^ Christian Bataille et Robert Galley, L'aval du cycle nucléaire, , Section 2.4,

^ See, for instance : 1998 written questions by Marie-Claude Beaudeau, ; ; 1997 written question by Noël Mamère, ; 1997 written question by Claude Billard,

(end of quote)

that the so-called Kevin is obviously willing to destroy, as they show "unwanted" evidences. The so-called Kevin seems to be willing to protect influent people and lobbies. And there is no real public information on who the Wikipedia administrators are. How many of them may actually have been involved in the controversies evoked by this biography, or be friends of these people ?

Anyway, the Wikipedia administrators have at their disposal easy solutions : banning people and doing anything they want without an editorial board to which "dissisent" editors and net surfers can complain. For obvious reasons, citizens must oppose to any Wikipedia application for a UNESCO World Heritage status. (talk) 08:15, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


I am not anonymous, and I am not a wikipedia administrator. My real-life identity is disclosed on my user page and I have absolutely no real-life affiliation with anyone involved in any of these events. This nomination is not any sort of conspiracy, I started it solely because I do not believe Luis meets our well-established notability requirements. Kevin (talk) 08:19, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


[hide]Disruptive IP Socks + Other users comments/replies -- DQ (t) (e) 20:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Sorry, but your user page actually says nothing about your "real life" identity. You just write :

I'm Kevin Gorman. I was a participant in the spring 2011 session of Politics of Piracy at UC Berkeley, and I will be facilitating the fall 2011 session.

(end of quote)

The Berkeley university provides no link with your curriculum vitae or anything similar. There is only this name that, given the controversial subject of the Berkeley course, could even be an agreed "pen name".

In practice, there is just no way to have an idea of your possible conflicts of interests. This is a general feature of Wikipedia administrators.

And you just give no specific argument to answer the scientific content of the biography. (talk) 08:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


  • The Berkeley website provides no link to my CV because I am an undergraduate. And, again, I am not an administrator. Take a look at WP:PROF, it lays out the criteria that an academic must meet to have an article on Wikipedia. If you think Luis meets any of those criteria, then calmly explain how he meets them. Otherwise this article is likely to be deleted. Kevin (talk) 08:44, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  • If you are an undergraduate, you are just unable to evaluate the relevance of the references given. There is no "miracle bibliometry" that can replace precise facts and analyses. Serious scientists are against bibliometry. Why are you attacking this biography, if you cannot judge it from a scientific point of view ?

And if you are an undergraduate, then you may depend on influential people for many purposes.

By the way, even an undergraduate should normally exhibit his curriculum vitae if he must give a lecture of any kind in a university like Berkeley. (talk) 08:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Whether or not you agree with the criteria that Wikipedia uses to determine whether or not an article should be included, the fact is, they are the criteria that the community here has decided to use. Inclusion on Wikipedia has nothing to do with scientific merit. If you do not explain how Luis meets the standard laid out at WP:PROF then this article will most likely be deleted.
  • And no, it would not be a typical for an undergraduate here to make public his CV. Kevin (talk) 08:58, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


[hide]Disruptive IP Socks + Other users comments/replies -- DQ (t) (e) 20:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • This is just not serious. If Kevin is an undergraduate, he is unable to evaluate the relevance of the references given.

Similarly, Crisco declares to be a student but he seems to be anonymous, so that one cannot check his biography. But he does not claim to have any special konwledge of the subject of this biography. What is he doing in this discussion ? He seems to be just supporting Kevin for personal reasons.

If there is no CV that can be checked, how can the public get an idea about the competence of the teacher and the seriousness of the course ? The same problem exists for the Wikipedia administrators, including possible conflicts of interests. The biography has explained everything, and is being censored. Now, it ias attacked on unclear grounds by people that do not claim any specific competence.

Actually, such as it is run, Wikipedia is not a community and has no "rules" or "criteria". Anonymous administrators just do what they want and there is no real control as there is no public editorial board to which one can complain. In any Parliament, even in the worst banana republics, there are public institutions. Candidates to elections have a known identity with a CV, and their conflicts of interests can in principle be controlled. (talk) 09:35, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


  • Delete A careful examination of WP:PROF, the criteria for determining the notability of academics indicates that LGM does not fulfill any of the criteria:
  • The person's research has made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources. - There are barely any independent reliable sources concerning LGM's work to begin with.
  • The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level. - No
  • The person is or has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association (e.g. a National Academy of Sciences or the Royal Society) or a Fellow of a major scholarly society for which that is a highly selective honor (e.g. the IEEE) - No
  • The person's academic work has made a significant impact in the area of higher education, affecting a substantial number of academic institutions. - There is no indication of this.
  • The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or "Distinguished Professor" appointment at a major institution of higher education and research. - No.
  • The person has held a major highest-level elected or appointed academic post at a major academic institution or major academic society. - No.
  • The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity. - There is no indication of this.
  • The person is or has been an editor-in-chief of a major well-established academic journal in their subject area. - No
  • The person is in a field of literature (e.g writer or poet) or the fine arts (e.g. musician, composer, artist), and meets the standards for notability in that art, such as WP:CREATIVE or WP:MUSIC. - No.

Clearly, from the evidence available in the article, LGM does not fulfill our requirements for notability, although it's certainly possible that he might someday. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


[hide]Disruptive IP Socks + Other users comments/replies -- DQ (t) (e) 20:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Do not delete and STOP DELETING COMMENTS, I have just been forced to restore several deleted comments.

As reminded before, there at least two well-known original contributions by Gonzalez-Mestres : the luminescent bolometer and the suggestion of a possible suppression of the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin cutoff. The fits one has been at the origin of CRESST and of other well-known experiments. The seconf one has plaid a crucial role in a whole field of checks of relativity theory. (talk) 09:51, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

  • PLEASE STOP RE-DELETING COMMENTS !!! This is precisely what tou call "vandalism". (talk) 09:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Note: At the risk of being censured for this action, I am not going to allow the chaos that took place on the AfD for the related article Superbradyon to happen here. The account-based puppetmaster User:Haeretica Pravitas and sockpuppets User:Indépendance des Chercheurs and User:Jaumeta are all currently blocked, but, as usual, the person behind these accounts is using IPs to disrupt this proceeding with irrelevant comments. I have moved these to the talk page, and will continue to do so until the Request for Page Protection is carried out. As always, legit editors can comment freely here, but the sockpuppets will not be allowed to participate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:04, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
    • Please note that I am not acting precipitously. Admin EdJohnston determined that these IPa were sockpuippets of the named accounts when he blocked IdC for seven days for socking with them, and Admin DeltaQuad agreed they were connected when HP was blocked for two weeks for the same reason. Admin Cirt agreed that these IPs were disruptive when he semi-protected the Superbradyon AfD to stop the IPs from editing there, and Admin HelloAnnyong agreed by semi-protecting the LGM article for the same reason. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:25, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  • So, obvioulsy there are no "rules" for the anonymous Wikipedia lobby.



  • Keep Quoting something Bm gub said at the first Superbradyon AfD: "Gonzalez-Mestres isn't a crackpot, he's notable (in the academic sense, perhaps not in the WP sense) in the field of cosmic-ray tests of spacetime symmetries." Spanish Wikipedia has a fairly long bio and French Wikipedia has an article on superbradyons. It's clear the article needs improvement, but surely it is a nontrivial sign of some kind of notability that his work is mentioned in the 2002 NYT article cited. Also, the notability tests in WP:PROF are based on US university practice, not on relevant status-milestones for physicists at CERN or College de France, both of which are very highly-regarded institutions. betsythedevine (talk) 11:48, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
  • @Betsythedevine: Is there another notability criteria you think would be more appropriate to use? Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


[hide]Disruptive IP Socks + Other users comments/replies -- DQ (t) (e) 19:19, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Keep Dear Betsy, if you keep writing sensible things, you may be "checkusered", "ducktested" and so on by the Wikipedia would-be Intelligence Agency and perhaps found to be a "sockpuppet" of Abraham Lincoln, Oliver Cromwell, David Wark Griffith or some other well-known internet surfer.

Of course, the biography of Gonzalez-Mestres is the natural place to discuss his work, but an unclear lobby is trying to destroy it.

To repeat a comment from somebody else posted to another discussion, let me remind that Nick Mavromatos wrote in the August 2002 CERN Courier :

"Other astrophysical probes of the stochastic quantum-gravity effects may be provided by ultra-high-energy cosmic rays (UHECR) with energies above 1019 eV, as well as by TeV photons. The presence of such events seems puzzling from the point of view of Lorentz invariance - standard kinematics imply the existence of energy thresholds, the Greisen, Zatsepin, Kuzmin (GZK) cut-off, above which certain reactions would prevent such energetic particles from reaching the observation point, assuming an extra-galactic origin. Some exotic suggestions have been made to relate Lorentz invariance violation associated with the quantum-gravity-induced modification of the particle's dispersion relations with the existence of UHECR or TeV photons, in the form of an abolition of the GZK cut-off in such models."

and that one of the references of the article is precisely :

L Gonzalez-Mestres 1997 physics/9704017 at

which corresponds to : (14 April 1997)

whose abstract explicitly states :

The sectorial Lorentz symmetry may be only a low-energy limit, in the same way as the relation $\omega $ (frequency) = $c_s$ (speed of sound) $k$ (wave vector) holds for low-energy phonons in a crystal. We study the consequences of such a scenario, using an ansatz inspired by the Bravais lattice as a model for some vacuum properties. It then turns out that: a) the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin cutoff on high-energy cosmic protons and nuclei does no longer apply; b) high-momentum unstable particles have longer lifetimes than expected with exact Lorentz invariance, and may even become stable at the highest observed cosmic ray energies or slightly above.

(end of quote)

Similarly, in The New York Times (December 2002), Dennis Overbye writes :

In the late 1990's Dr. Luis Gonzalez-Mestres of the National Center for Scientific Research in France, and, independently, the Harvard theorists Dr. Sheldon Glashow and Dr. Sidney Coleman proposed that a small violation of relativity would allow high-energy cosmic rays to evade the G.Z.K. energy limit on travel.

(end of quote)

Even if Dennis Overbye uses the expression "independently", the way he quotes Gonzalez-Mestres is a clear recognizion of his priority. Then, one can check the actual dates of papers. It is quite obvious that in August 1998 there was no reason for Coleman and Glashow not to cite Gonzalez-Mestres. Especially, given the fact that Coleman and Glashow had cited Gonzalez-Mestres here : (revised 30 April 1997 version, two weeks after the above paper by Gonzalez-Mestres and not considering a possible suppression of the GZK cutoff)

and the Harvard University has itself an excellent database quickly picking abstracts, where you can find this paper :

as well as the May 1997 one by Gonzalez-Mestres whose title was explicitly :

Absence of Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin Cutoff and Stability of Unstable Particles at Very High Energy, as a Consequence of Lorentz Symmetry Violation

Coleman, Glashow and Smolin could not reasonably ignore this evidence, especially in August 1998 (date of the first paper where Coleman and Glashow evoked a possible GZK cutoff suppression) or years later. (talk) 13:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

  • There also seems to be a clear correlation between the attacks against the superbradyon article and the Gonzalez-Mestres biography (the biography has also been recently suppressed in the French Wikipedia) and the public statements of the Collective Indépendance des Chercheurs against the anti-Bogdanoff campaign where some Wikipedia administrators appear to be directly involved (at least one of them, Alain Riazuelo). See the Wikipedia articles :

as well as these articles by Indépendance des Chercheurs : (talk) 13:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep I agree with the previous posts by, but the role of Gonzalez-Mestres in the field of cryogenic detectors, where he was one of the leading scientists when the field started, must also be emphasized. References are available in the previous version of his biograpphy before censorhip started, for instance here :

In January 1984 [1], together with Denis Perret-Gallix, González-Mestres proposed the use of superheated superconducting granules (SSG) of type I superconductors to detect magnetic monopoles. Both authors worked in 1984-90 to develop a SSG detector for this project, but also for a SSG solar neutrino detector following a proposal by Georges Waysand. In 1985, following a suggestion by Mark Goodman and Edward Witten [2], they also started considering a SSG dark matter detector [3].

Gonzalez-Mestres and Perret-Gallix simultaneously considered alternative detectors for neutrinos and dark matter, such as special scintillators [4],[5]. They formulated in 1988 [6] the original proposal of the luminescent bolometer with simultaneous detection of light and heat [7],[8], that is now the basic instrument of the CRESST (Dark Matter Search) experiment [9], of the ROSEBUD experiment [10] and (partially) of the EURECA (Dark Matter Search) project [11]. In 1989, Gonzalez-Mestres and Perret-Gallix further emphasized the potentialities of such a detector for particle identification and background rejection[12]. In 1991-92, Gonzalez-Mestres also discussed the possible use of the luminescent bolometer to improve effective segmentation and energy resolution in solar neutrino experiments incorporating an indium target [13],[14]. He considered the use of arrays of superconducting tunnel junctions to simultaneously detect light and phonons.

(end of quote) (talk) 18:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


Categories: AfD debates (Science and technology) | AfD debates




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See also our articles :

How Wikipedia administrators "investigate" and punish "dissident" editors

Wikipedia and internet police (I)

Wikipédia et police de l'internet (I)

Wikipédia et censure de l'internet (I)

Wikipédia et censure de l'internet (II)

Superbradyons and Wikipedia

Wikipedia and the so-called "Bogdanov affair" (I)

Wikipédia anglophone et "affaire Bogdanoff"

Wikipédia français et conflits d'intérêts (I)

Wikipédia français et conflits d'intérêts (II)

CNRS, frères Bogdanoff, médias... (I)

CNRS, frères Bogdanoff, médias... (II)

CNRS, frères Bogdanoff, médias... (III)

Wikipédia français et chasse aux "faux-nez"

Luis Gonzalez-Mestres et Wikipédia français (I)

Luis Gonzalez-Mestres et Wikipédia français (II)

e-G8 et problèmes réels de l'internet

Faut-il "excommunier" Stephen Hawking ? (I)

Morts des blogs ou annonce d’une censure ?

CNRS et concours DR1 : notre recours

CNRS, concours DR1 et transparence

CNRS, concours DR1 et comportement des élus

Conflits d'intérêts et institutions françaises (I)

Conflits d'intérêts et institutions françaises (II)

Conflits d'intérêts et institutions françaises (III)

Conflits d'intérêts et institutions françaises (IV)


Indépendance des Chercheurs


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